September 30th, 2004

monk john

Live thoughts on the 30 Sept. 2004 debate

Bush simply cannot speak well without an audience of sycophants

Kerry looks old

Bush acts and sounds like he's on drugs

Bush needs to control his facial expressions

Bush is NOT good at coming up with answers...planning is for other people?

Kerry bringing up the problems with the military equipment, and the increased casualties month to month.

Bush keeps hitting the flip flop, and Kerry won't play. He's totally sidestepping it, and it's throwing Bush off.

Kerry hitting the budget cuts over here as a result of the money in Iraq, and what isn't being done. Hitting on the tax cuts and what isn't done. Hitting on the fire and budget cuts. Hitting on NBC weaknesses.

Kerry is REALLY cutting his time close, but good closing.

Bush is talking a 30B funding increase and border patrol, and then immediately goes back to attacking terrorists. Campaigning for the Patriot act renewal.

Kerry saying it's not money, it's HOW you do work.


Leher asks for criteria on bringing people home, bush is talking about at least another full year there to train them. The answer is "When Iraq lets us come home" after elections and some nebulous stability qualifications. He brings up deadlines forgetting his own June 30 deadline. Pandering to the troops now. He somehow just said that a free Iraq will help protect Israel? WHAT THE FUCK?!?!?!?!

Kerry bringing up that Bush's dad didn't want to go into Iraq because of our situation. Pointing out that we guarded the the Oil ministry not the NBC facilities.

Bush brings up the damned flip-flop again. A very personal attack on Kerry.

Kerry says he made a mistake on how he talks about the war, but bush made a mistake in going. He says when you see something's wrong, you fix it.

Kerry admitting that he voted for the war based on Bush's intelligence and case. He's basically saying that he was mislead by Bush. Says that invading Iraq over 9/11 would be like Roosevelt invading Mexico for Pearl Harbor. Beating Bush about his inability to work with anyone else.

Oooh...Bush replies with "That's totally absurd". I did too have an alliance...Britain and Poland. Bush is going very personal on this. "I know how these people think. I talk to them a lot." Again with the flip flop. Bush's tactic seems to be "Flip Flop" and "THE TERRORISTS WILL GET YOU".

Kerry directly rebutting. Pointing out that three countries when we went in is not a grand coalition.

Bush is just attacking Kerry personally. This is almost silly. The coalition will only last as long as he's president.

Bush trying to point out that the reason there's so many guerillas in Iraq is because we won too fast, and he thought they'd stay and fight, not run away to fight another day. He sees stuff. Ah, back to the flip flop. He's bringing up that now we have an alliance. Brings up the 7B we're spending. "It's hard, we're doing hard work." He just shat on islamic law, equating the cutting off of hands of thieves to tyranny.

Kerry pointing out that he will not ignore the facts for some shining goal. Slaps back the denigration trick. Points out the troop numbers don't spell out coalition. Brings it back to how many casualties. BOOYAH! Just brought up North Korea of having Nukes on Bush's watch!

Leher asks Kerry if Bush lied. Kerry says no, but he wasn't candid. Just slapped bush over the yellowcake in Niger. Slapping them on the planning. Slapping them on they didn't tell the whole truth. Points out that he's been working with world leaders for over twenty years. Points out that Al Queda is using Iraq as a recruiting tool. Holy shit, he just invoked REAGAN.

Bush is trying to somehow say that Kerry would let Osama determine our defense. Oh, back to the flip-flop. flip-flop. flip-flop. Flip-flop. He just told Leher to let him finish.

Kerry is fighting the flip flop well. Not saying that he flip-flopped on Hussein, but on the tactics.

Bush keeps saying Flip-Flop, Kerry Flip-Flops. That's pretty much 60% of his statements.

Bush is still stumbling over words. Brings up crying and praying with Missy Johnson..whoever the fuck that was. Says that the lives lost are "noble and worthy". Goes back to Hussein was a threat. stumbling on the words badly.

Kerry points out that he knows what it's like to lose people in combat. "Never confuse the war with the warriors". He's being quite eloquent here. "I want to make sure that the outcome honors the nobility." Keeps hammering on Bush's lack of planning. "I will hunt and kill the terrorists whereever they are."

Bush says "I understand what it's like to be commander in chief FLIPFLOPFLIPFLOPFLIPFLOPFLIPFLOP!!!!!" Kerry's plan won't work.

Kerry brings up Colin Powell's "Pottery Barn Rule", and slaps back on the flip flop shit. Almost went over time.

Leher asking Kerry for a time line, Kerry didn't fall for that. Kerry just accused Bush of misleading his statement. Points out that we're building over 14 bases there, and that we didn't think through what our actions look like. Points out that we have to not look like we are there for oil. "We don't have long term designs on Iraq" as a bald statement of his administration if reacting. Points out that Bush just now asked for money for training Iraqis

Bush brings up numbers. Now, back to FLIPFLOPFLIPFLOPFLIPFLOP. Accuses Kerry of questioning the Iraqi prime minister's credibility. FLIPFLOPFLIPFLOPFLIPFLOP. I think it's up to 70% now.

Kerry points out that Alawi said "terrorists are pouring over the border".

Bush is saying that's because we're there...duh...oh yeah...flipflop

OOOH...leher just asked if Iraq means more likelihood of preemptive attacks...FLIPFLOP!! bush is saying that Hussein would have been stronger had we not invaded. "We use diplomacy every chance we get". FLIPFLOPFLIPFLOP. Now he's bringing up LIBYA??? Oh jesus, they've been out of that business for years.

Kerry just pointing out that Bush just said that we went into Iraq to fight the terrorists who attacked us. Pointing out that hussein had no resources. Points out that we outsourced our efforts in Afghanistan to the warlords we were fighting.

Bush said "I KNOW THAT OSAMA BIN LADEN ATTACKED US". Hussein would have been stronger.

Kerry: When we attacked Iraq, there were 30 countries with more WMDs than Iraq. Now NK has them.

Kerry says he would never cede the right to first strike. Points out that Colin Powell had to apologize for his UN preso. Points out that NK and Iran are more dangerous now than pre-bush. Points out that bush didn't sign anti-proliferation treaties.

Bush likes to lead with that sigh. It's very dismissive and rude. You take pre-emptive action to protect. Bush is trying to tie anti-proliferation treaties to the world court.

Bush is saying that negotiations and diplomacy will work in NK. He's trying to say that we have better diplomacy now than before. Totally lost his train of thought..I swear he's on tranquilizers...he seems to lose what he's saying a lot. he just kinda rambled.

Kerry is hammering bush on NK. Just hit Bush on a flipflop ;-) said we embarassed SK prime minister. NK now has 4-6 nuclear weapons.

Bush says bilateral talks would unravel the 6-party talks. bush is avoiding saying nuclear.

Leher just brought up the Sudan. Kerry first. Says we went alone with the sanctions on Iran, and that we need to actually DO something in Iraq. Just brought up the back door draft. Putting forth numbers on the overextension of the military. Wants to add more troops for not Iraq.

Bush just said previous administration did the Iran sanctions. Stumbling BADLY over Dafour(sp?) Amazing how he suddenly is all about international coalitions for all the darkies in Africa who don't got no oil.

Leher just asked Bush about the character issue. Bush is being really gracious here...setup? It's okay that kerry went to Yale? "CAUSE YOU DID TOO!!!! oh yeah "he's a good guy, but FLIPFLOPFLIPFLOPFLIPFLOP" But changing tactics is okay.

Kerry is being gracious back. a little humorous back and forth, and holy shit...humanity. He's not going to judge character, it's not his job. Oooh...hitting on the flipflop..."You can be certain and be wrong. You can be certain, and then learn new facts, and move in accordance with that. " he just brought up the stem cell shit too. BAM.

Bush brings it back to any change is a change in core values.

Kerry "I've never wilted in my life." that vietnam shit.

Kerry saying that Nuclear Proliferation is the biggest threat, and that terrorists are getting that shit. Brings back NK, and the bunker buster crap. pointing out that we're sending mixed messages on nukes to the world..."Two for me, NONE for you."

goddamnit, bush just cannot say "Nuclear" right. Says he's increased funding for antiproliferation. Keeps stumbling over words. Libya is old news. Oh dear god, he's bringing up STAR WARS. GAH!!!!

Kerry is saying that bush is doing less for stopping nukes.

Bush is saying that bilateral talks are a mistake. Why is this mutlinational shit okay for NK and not Iraq.

Bush saying that he has a good relationship with Putin, but can't say his first name right. I wonder if Bush is catching or pitching in his good relation with Putin. He trails off a lot.

Kerry points out that he was there when the Soviets fell, and that he was one of the first into the old KGB headquarters. Pointing out that Putin is going more totalitarian, and that we need a working relationship, but we have to stand up for him. Kerry just slapped bush back on NK again.


Kerry is fighting that.

Closing statement time.

Kerry gets first closing, bush gets last word.

Kerry saying that strength does not require going it alone, and that we never had a true coalition. Not afraid to say he'd use troops where needed. He's a really good speaker.

Bush: FLIPFLOPFLIPFLOPFLIPFLOP FLIPFLOPFLIPFLOPFLIPFLOP FLIPFLOPFLIPFLOPFLIPFLOP FLIPFLOPFLIPFLOPFLIPFLOP FLIPFLOPFLIPFLOPFLIPFLOP FLIPFLOPFLIPFLOPFLIPFLOP Okay, just said no draft, that's mighty nice of him. He's trying to make it sound like Kerry would let others control our troops. He's slurring his words badly. REALLY badly. "We've climbed the mighty mountain and I see the valley below"??? WTF??

closing shots...Kerry's more outgoing to the audience, bush seems to stay away from them. Bush and Kerry's wives are almost dressed the same.

well, there you go. No other commentary.